[Snort-users] Re: CAUTION: Long Rant!!! Re: [Snort-sigs] Broken 1429.2 (POLICY poll.gotomypc.com access)

Bamm Visscher bamm.visscher at ...11827...
Tue Oct 12 13:26:15 EDT 2004

You're right. Eric and I probably should of kept our thoughts to
ourselves. I really felt that Eric used this as a chance to 'gang' up
on Brian (the cross post to snort-users for no apparent reason being
the straw that broke the camels back) and I thought it was relevant to
show there were others (outside of snort.org/sourcefire) who
understood Brian's position.
To clarify, loki of fatelabs is Eric Hines. So yes, those links are
relevant and the ones I assume he was commenting on.

"Hawking your warez" is acceptable in certain circumstances.  I posts
new releases and respond to what I feel are relevant posts regularly. 
At other times, it's no better than spam. I personally was directly
contacted by Eric after responding to a post to snort-users. His
product had no relevance to the thread on snort-users at the time. He
merely knew I was a snort user and he hoped he could sell me his
product. IMHO, gleening email addrs and sending direct, unsolicited
email == SPAM and I didn't appreciate it (nor was I the only one).

Back on topic (yay!). I am all for better cooperation between the
community and snort.org/sourcefire.  I am thankful for the work that
is done by them and by others like you, who work on other aspects of
snort. This gives me time to work on other things for the community
too. As a community, I think we do a pretty good job. We have our ups
and downs like any other organization. With that said, a round of beer
for everyone. :)


On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:20:31 -0500, Matt Jonkman <matt at ...12231...> wrote:
> Keeping this short, I hope we don't get this into a flame war. It's not
> supposed to be that. Hopping off lurker status to throw a dart isn't
> going to help the discussion at all. (Like the dart reference? :) )
> A couple quick points: Comment on them if you like:
> 1. I do think it's reasonable that a forum of professional adults can
> interact without personal attacks and flame wars. Will it happen, likely
> not. There's always the kindergartner waiting to spring out of any of
> us. :) But I hope we can avoid dwelling on or letting it drone on.
> 2. I don't think it unreasonable to hawk your wares once in a while in
> the normal course of discussion. I haven't heard Eric do anything out of
> line. We're all here to make a living. My firm gives bleeding the
> resources to do what it does not out of the goodness of it's heart but
> the desire to build recognition and reputation. If you think anything
> else you need to take off the rose-colored glasses. If you're not
> selling something or providing a service you're using the knowledge
> shared here to protect yourself. We're all in it for ourselves, but
> we've realized sharing information benefits us all.
> BTW: The links you provided weren't a discussion with Eric in it as far
> as I saw. So not sure about what you were referring to. But I hope we
> can just drop it.
> The point of the thread is to try to build a productive working
> relationship between bleeding snort and it's users, and
> snort.org/sourcefire. No personal squabbles are more important than that
> (or even relevant to this list). We need to grow up. Myself included in
> that statement.
> Matt
> Bamm Visscher wrote:
> > I'll admit to also being the type (like Brian) who abuses the sarcasm
> > key on his keyboard on a regular basis. Sometimes, people Some may
> > even consider my personality abusive  (a good friend recently joked
> > that it's a wonder I have as many friends as I do). I've also been on
> > opposite sides of heated discussions with practically everyone with a
> > snort.org mailing address (I think my picture may be permanently
> > affixed to Marty's dart board). With that said, I have to back Brian
> > on this. These lists have many different types of personalities, and
> > to think flame wars and other heated discussions aren't going to occur
> > in such a public forum is simply ignorant.  The important part is that
> > the parties involved either reconcile, agree to disagree, or whatever.
> > Looks like that has occurred in this case and it's unfortunate that
> > you felt the need to jump in and stir the pot (why the cross posts to
> > snort-users?).
> >
> > In further defense of Brian, I don't see how his response to your
> > posts are 'out of line'. Most of the time your posts are really just
> > poor attempts to pimp your proprietary product or "research paper" and
> > while trying to disguise it as help or advice anyway.  I think this
> > [0] is the post you were refering to and here [1] is Brian's response.
> >  Read the entire thread to get a bigger picture.  See, the problem
> > with these posts of yours is they are flat out wrong, yet you attempt
> > to protray yourself as an authority on the subject and then you get
> > upset when someone calls you out.
> >
> > And finally, this quote from you just cracks me up, especially coming
> > from someone who seems to feel the neeed  to ammend a bunch of
> > meaningless certs and an irrelevant title to every posts.
> >
> >
> >>One thing in life you'll learn pretty quickly is that respect is earned, not
> >>given to you because of your status or who you are.
> >
> >
> > Bammkkkk
> >
> > P.S.
> >
> > BTW, this post is NOT a solicitation for you to contact me directly in
> > an attempt to pimp your product (again).  I shouldn't need to add
> > this, but you seem to have a lack of common sense in that regards.
> >
> > [0] http://www.pantek.com/library/general/lists/snort.org/snort-sigs/msg00133.html
> > [1] http://www.pantek.com/library/general/lists/snort.org/snort-sigs/msg00138.html
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:07:27 -0500, Eric Hines
> > <eric.hines at ...8860...> wrote:
> >
> >>Brian,
> >>
> >>I will have to concur with Matt Jonkman here. You have a track record of
> >>degrading people in open forums and have done so to me on several occasions
> >>with no hesitation since I first started posting. The first occurrence I can
> >>remember was attempting to help the community make signatures for a new worm
> >>that came out. Your only response was to attack me for using reserved SIDs.
> >>You attack people on a consistent basis and am frankly getting sick and
> >>tired of you and your ego trips.
> >>
> >>One instance recently I'd like to bring up was your response to my post to
> >>Sam Evans who was inquiring about anyone who had run Vmware server + Snort.
> >>I merely offered the fact that several of our customers use it and you took
> >>the opportunity to not only attack my post but put words in my mouth and
> >>attacked me in an open forum while doing so.
> >>
> >>I don't know what your story is Brian, but everyone I've spoken to that
> >>you've ripped a new hole in on mailing lists would like to see your attitude
> >>take a major change. After all, you are the face of snort.org -- you should
> >>represent it with more professionalism and courtesy to the community.
> >>
> >>Thank God someone here had the audacity to finally say something to you.
> >>
> >>One thing in life you'll learn pretty quickly is that respect is earned, not
> >>given to you because of your status or who you are.
> >>
> >>
> >>Eric Hines, GCIA, CISSP
> >>CEO, President
> >>Applied Watch Technologies, Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------
> Matthew Jonkman, CISSP
> Senior Security Engineer
> Infotex
> 765-429-0398 Direct Anytime
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