[Snort-users] Fallacies and lies.

Bob Walder bwalder at ...1926...
Wed Nov 5 13:47:06 EST 2003


All good points - and believe me I am well aware of Gartner's target
audience and exactly why they keep spouting drivel such as this. 

However, what gets me is the fact that the poor techie guys who have to
actually fight the fires on a daily basis and implement this stuff have
to keep convincing management that deep inspection firewalls are NOT
actually the way to go at this moment in time, and YES we DO need IDS,
and NO it will NOT become obsolete as soon as we have bought it (well,
no more than any other piece of computer equipment/technology will....)

I genuinely believe that Gartner is not helping the cause here. In fact
I would go so far as to say they are actively hindering it. In the
current climate of more and more complex and effective worms being
released every week, I consider their behaviour to be irresponsible.
Still, as long as they get their sales, eh?


Bob Walder

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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: snort-users-admin at lists.sourceforge.net 
>> [mailto:snort-users-admin at lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf 
>> Of Rich Adamson
>> Sent: 05 November 2003 13:07
>> To: snort-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: RE: [Snort-users] Fallacies and lies.
>> > I am not a vendor of IDS/IPS product - I have no 
>> connection with any 
>> > such vendors (other than in my capacity as an independent 
>> tester of 
>> > such
>> > products) and so I have no real axe to grind here - but it 
>> really ticks
>> > me off that Gartner can keep on coming out with crap like 
>> this and not
>> > only getting away with it, but actually getting some mugs 
>> to pay for it!
>> I'm with you, however keep in mind their comments have a 98% 
>> probability they were based on "marketing" principles, and 
>> not on any current real facts. Their actions are really no 
>> different then a lot of companies that sell products; how 
>> far can the marketing people stretch the truth to gain 
>> customer attention and sales?
>> If you step way back and watch how marketing people and 
>> politicians work 
>> in the US at least, the individuals (in politics) and many 
>> companies (in 
>> products) that are towards the top of the pile are 
>> frequently borderline 
>> liars. That's one of the fundamental reasons why one will seldom see 
>> individuals with any form of technical background fill marketing or 
>> political positions. (There are obviously some exceptions, 
>> but not very
>> many.)
>> Gartner's target audience for sales has been, and will 
>> continue to be, the 
>> upper and senior management ranks in fortune 1000 
>> businesses. These are 
>> the same people that have signature level authority to 
>> comission that company to do something the executive 
>> considers important to his/her area or business. Gartner's 
>> technical audience is a very small piece of their business.
>> In the end whether its Gartner, the president, a marketing 
>> VP, or a used car salesperson, it doesn't make any 
>> difference to most of us. All they 
>> have to remember is the same three things that plumbers have 
>> known for 
>> years...
>>   1. Payday is on Friday,
>>   2. The boss is a good guy, and,
>>   3. Shit runs downhill
>>      a. "I was briefed incorrectly..."
>>      b. "Our technical department gave me..."
>>      c. "It was taken out of context..."
>>      d. "Specs changed..."
>>      e. <read the latest headlines or marketing slicks for 
>> hundreds more>
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